Ep. 1824 How to promote and sell Italian wines in France | wine2wine Business Forum 2023

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So good afternoon and welcome to this panel with, Fani Grien. She's an expert of the French market for Italian wines because, actually, she represents some Italian wineries on the French market. And, she studied, food science and we're making she worked, actually, the winemaker in Italy, France, and in Chile, then, as a wine importer in the US. So she came back in two thousand eight, and she started her own company, genuine wines, and she import Italian wines in France. So she knows very well both the markets. And the good news, according to Fannie's speech, you will see, it's that there's room in France for Italian wines, and we will discover with her speech in which, circumstances there's this room. I introduced myself too. I'm a journalist from Coride de La Sierra, Cook. It's the food and wine supplement of Korea. I'm alexander Almonte, and I'm very pleased to introduce fun embrace. So Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much, Franchesca. So, yes, I'm a French woman who loves Italian wine a lot. So, I will share with you my vision of the market of Italian wines in France and how we can promote and sell Italian wines. So to start, let's do a zoom on the consumption in France. How do we who consume wines and and how? And then inside of these Italian wines, to then see what's the potential are and how we can grow. So the wine consumption is pretty high. We are on the second market, for the one consumption with forty liters per person. It used to be much more in the seventies. We were used to drink hundred liters per people. I guess, it was a long day, so I don't know. The wine were, had a lower alcohol level at that time, and it was really different type of of work more physical. So today with forty liters, we have a division more or less equally in between red Rosie white. White wines are growing in in France, and red wines are a little declining. So we are more and more arriving to third of each. In in this landscape, we know we have a six percent of foreign wines, consumed in France. It seems to be small, but due to the large market, it can be an interesting figure. On three years, nineteen, twenty, and twenty one, we have seen that the wine consumption has grown in France. These figures, it's the closest figure we have, but it's also during the pandemic. And we know that during that time, French were staying in France and enjoying easy pleasure, having good meal and drinking good wine. So we have to be careful. We are not growing by eight point six percent every year. No. And which is most maintaining, but it's a dynamic market. We are both the bottles. So still in grocery stores a lot, for five bottles out of ten. And then in restaurants. Restaurant market is interesting for foreign wines because there are lots of Italian restaurants and this is probably the most interesting market for you as producers to work. Then we continue to buy wines also in winery. And still producers are going to winery to to to buy to direct producer. And then wine stores, of course, online, online, we used to be behind, in France. It was not a channel, very well developed, but it's changing and also during COVID time, it has changed. This is more about the people. Who are the buyers? Today we can see that the major, buyers are people above fifty five years old. And then the smallest market is for people around thirty five or below. So we need to continue to keep the market dynamic. That's an important point. But then if we have a look on how people buy wines, we can see that young generation are still buying those who buy wines, those who drink wines are quite active buyers. They will buy same amount of wine when they go to Chapo, when they consume wines as people are fifty five years old or sixty five years old. So it's more how to gain new customers because then these customers are pretty active. And what's interesting is they are also maybe more active into foreign wines. So we have an overall consumption days, which is declining, but it concerns more the cheaper wines and also the supermarket. So we are really in a movement of drink less, drink better, and it's this phenomenal is continuing. People are ready to spend more, when they buy wines and They want to have quality. They want to have something different. They want to also understand. They are ready to learn and explore. About digitalization, this is increasing, but Here again, we are too close to the COVID phenomenon to really analyze the figures and maybe we have to wait some time to see if this will stay a dynamic market because just after people are coming back to stores. Physical stores. Two important tendencies in France are organic or any environmental situation and sparkling, organic or environmental situation. So In France, we we know that in the near future, it will be very hard to buy wine that has no environmental stratification. For this reason, we have created, an education called HVE, which means a high value high environmental value. Different from organic certification, there is polemics because some people are thinking this name that means high value is less environmental friendly rather than organic. But it's also showing that French market needed to make a certification on which consumers could rely because they really want to buy something with a link to environment. That's the same for the foreign wines. The foreign wines that are organic or that have a special distinction will have will be will have more chance to develop. That's for sure. You have more and more organic stores with a wine section and these stores where they will only buy organic wines. And sometimes it's it's sad because the vineyard can be organic certified, but not the wine, so it's not on the label. And it might be something small for you, but in the end, you are losing potential targets. And sparkling wines, yes, it's We have this tendency as in many different countries. Proseco is a success in France and Proseco people under no proseseco. They don't know how it's made, but they know it very well. They are also expecting a certain kind of taste. They know it doesn't taste as cremeux champagne. It's not second fermentation taste. They are waiting for them or the fruitiness. So Proseco has made a really good job. I mean, in France, people drink it alone or with the the spritz, in cocktail. This is a list of some wine chain, wine shop and chains. They can they have all of them. They have a a wine section for foreign wines. Nicola, which belong to, Le Group, Castel. So here you have even up to cheaper wines and five hundred stores, you can imagine that, you need to have some volume to enter this channel. Kavalan just behind was interesting in terms of financial figures. It's working well too. Laura de bacuse, they do have an interesting Italian wine section. And I know they are dynamic and buy from different wine importance. Niza also there are more known for being those who are looking for something top, something great, hidden gems. So that's their specification. And they are less stores, so they can also have this section. It has been created by a group of producers. To be able to manage from A to Z, the distribution. We have e shops. So I was telling you previously we were behind. France was more traditional regarding distribution. So we used to have some e shops, but not much Today, it has changed. We have choice, some French, some, not French, but with the point FR and deliveries into France very easily. Some are based on subscription, like or this is very interesting to launch a domain. I know that they will taste blind This is, owners who are visiting lots of, wine fairs in France, like, Milizim Buogou or the off fair. So now we have seen a little about wine consumption. Where are Italian wines in this landscape. Italian wines, if we have a look at the figures, it arrives to twenty nineteen point eight percent of foreign wines in France. And Spain looks to be in front of it with eighteen point eight percent. But if we look closer, Spain includes also lots of Belk wine that are bottle in France that are bland also with some some wines in France. So If we clean up the figures, we see that Italy and still wines is the first, the number one. French people, they really love Italy. They love Italian wines. They have travel to Italy, young neighbors. So, the preference is there. To do this presentation, I have also called some customers, they own shops And they were explaining me that whenever they are advising a consumer to buy wine, if they are introducing a producer from Italy, ninety percent chance they will the person will buy it. It's never the same when they are introducing a wine from Austria or Spain, or they have to argue more. So, yes, Italy is really the first country. Here on the same period of time, nineteen twenty, twenty one, we we can see that it has also been the most dynamic in quantity and value. Value remains low. So we also have to work on quality to continue bringing in high quality Italian wines in quantity to balance these figures. Still in sparking. So, sparkling, the most important, and this is no surprise thanks to prosecco because of the power of the brand, the reputation, the markets they have done, they have made a good work. And this is growing. So, really dynamic far behind all the other sparkling wines and and keep on increasing. Then for the steel wines, Tuscany is number one. Then we can see if we identified region, Venetto arrive, Tuscany, Venetto and Pimonte have been identified with Tuscany, number one. And here too, the tendency of a three years Tuscany is very dynamic. Piamonte has gained. Veneto has gained some, but we have lots of space to continue entering and bringing in lots of other one region, and we are ready in France to taste unique small region. We are not afraid of small area because in France, we also drink small areas. Now, if we if we look at just the foreign wines where are they both CHA, it's restaurants. So this is really the market to explore, restaurants because we have lots of cuisine of the world and especially Italian cuisine. So it's there that you will sell more in volume and in value. E shop can be very interesting for the diversity on a digital shop. We are looking for wines we cannot find in a physical store. Here, we can we can buy Dorella, we can buy, market much more easily than if we go to a physical store. But every serious wine store, they do have a foreign wine section today. A foreign wine section, it's a big word to say they have Italian wines. I have asked the question to, people I know who are selling wines to, to French, they have their own wine stores who will buy Italian wines. It will be young people. People who are traveling. They are back from a travel in Italy. They want to drink what they have discovered during the vacation, when they want to taste something different, when they don't know when they have they are advised to buy the the salesperson to taste this wine, they will follow, they will trust, or when they want to cook something, italian food. The reason why it's very important to create the link with the wine merchant. The wine merchant will be really your help. Underlie, rely on him because it will give you much more in return. When I started, my job fifteen years ago, I was in charge of making export market for Italian, some Italian wines and French wines and for Italian wines, France was an export market. It was hard to find wine importers, and, I decided to import wines to bringing them in and to have the license for wine importation. And this gave me the possibility to go and discuss directly with the private stores and restaurants. And when I was visiting stores, they kept telling me, well, funny. My customers, they're not really interested in Italian wines. And I knew it was not true because if I was doing tasting to private people, they were interested in in Italian wines. I think so it has changed. Really, it has changed. I think at that time, it was more the lack of knowledge. A French person want to know, especially if they are owning or selling wines, they are supposed to know. And it would be awful for them if someone arrives in the store and no more than them. This or this or this region. And you have to think that we don't have books written in French on Italian wine. So you have to teach not only your winery, but also your wine region. And today it has changed. And I think it has changed thanks to the many wine fairs that invited Italian producers to come. It has created a discussion with, professional and professional. They are curious. They, and your wines are very interesting because the tastes are very different from French wine. So the interest is there and you have lots of potential. So the strengths, native grapes and different grapes than those we have, your red wines have much more acidity. So it tastes different right away. Your white wines could have more turn ins or more bitterness. So it tastes different. Also, the story behind, we are cousin. We do the wine the same way. We have the same size, even the equipment in the winery. Well, if we compare to a new world, we do the wine the same way. I have worked in Italy and I have worked in Chile. In France, it's the same as in Italy. I think we have we can easily understand your story, it's family, story, or passionate people who wants to start. It's close to what we do and its story we will fall in love too. We love Italian culture, wine food. So we are ready. We are receptive. And again, being organic will be a plus. That's for sure. Wine importance today if they have choice in between two wineries from a wine area. And if one is organic, they might select this because their customers are also asking for more organic wines. The weakness more I wrote when this is made from French grape variety. Maybe not for every consumer, but I think it's not the wines to start or to launch your winery if you are. Have wines made also from French grapes. That's okay, but maybe talk more about the others. Then you have lots of IGP, lots of doc, docG also Vinirociv in the bianchi as in France now. But as I said before, since we don't know, you have to take more time to give the landscapes, whereas your winery. Otherwise, they won't they will be lost. They will feel, insecure. They will feel I'm talking about the caveats now because then the wine importer, of course, they know, but still take time to give the information. And since we are looking for younger and younger label are sometimes, too classic, you can interest less people and how to grow. So as for every market, but this is something you know, having a price range and three level, mid level and high level. Because you won't be cheap wines in France. If you are going to the market, which is increasing, you are going to a market of knowledgeable people and your wine will go through a wine importer. So you have one more step and you won't be a cheap wine. So it's important to have a price range and your entry level wine will help the rest of the range to be imported. Something important is the ability of your wine importer to clear the order. A friend of mine asking me to help because the wine importer in France hasn't cleared the EID. In France, people love buying at a good price. They are happy to buy external price for their own store, but they won't do distribution and they are not real wine important. They will tell you that they can import. They have the IC's number, a cheesy number, but at the end, they don't do the job. So make sure they are able to clear your EID. And then you rely to your marketing and your wine. You are doing something very nice. You have an interesting wine region and jewel and also wines we cannot find in France and that's the plus then you will explain your region and zoom to your winery. But by explaining the history of your wine region and the landscapes and the relief and the soil, it gives the professional behind tours because I think we are scientific. We like facts a lot. So we will rely on this facts to also then tell a story. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. And then when you have your customer, when you have when you start the collaboration, take some time to send newsletter to them. I know it's, you are very busy with the winery and you have to do everything, but even if it's twice a year to explain what you're doing and to explain for instance the vintage, we love a lot in France talking about vintage. How it was because then that's how the wine professional will explain to the private people in the vintage. I would advise to write in French. You use any translator we are supposed to read English or sobel. We have good wine fairs, wine Paris. We know that this will be a successful wine fair now. We needed, French fair. You will see many professionals coming to this fair, for sure, looking for Italian wines. If you are organic, Millizimbiou is a good wine fair also. Seventy percent French market. So restaurants stores wine importer. And then thirty percent will be foreign a wine importer from outside of France. So two wine fair to focus on. And then you could do smaller wine fair, of course. Also, I have list three of them, but you can find others. The offers around Milizemiro are around La Louis antisting, that's organized by an Italian professional. I think the wine importer. I think it's important to have some a wine importer with a good network with versions. You will sell to wine stores. Yes. But in terms of volume, the buy the glass, it will be restaurants. So it's important to have this connection. I also believe it's possible to have different wine importer in France. If a wine importer is asking for exclusivity from my opinion, ask how they organize and if really they have a team to be on the market. We could divide France into five big area. You have Paris, you have Northwest, Northeast, Southwest, Southeast. Maybe they can do all if they have a team. Or if they go regularly or if they organize stacy, you can ask it's natural question to ask. There is no problem about this before giving an exclusivity or ask after a year. Okay. Where do we sell most? And if it's not everywhere. The only problem about exclusivity, about the reason why it's the price point, but this is always possible to make sure there is a price policy in France. I think it's possible. We have some producers in France who also import wines. And this can be a good, partner because they have the distribution for their own wine in France. So they can use this distribution to introduce also foreign wines. I really believe there is a potential in terms of the public. We can see the increase of wine importer. This creates a little competition. You will hear what in professional influence saying, oh, there is too many competitors know. It's not saturated. And this gives lots of choice to the final consumer. It gives, knowledge. That's name of, one important, making a good job. So some of them are all in Paris. Others are in, well, Negosient from Bordeaux, this is La Place de Bordeaux, the Negosient, who made the business with the Bordeaux brands, they are, they also have a section for foreign wines and Italian wines. The press. We discussed this point with Franchesca because she knows very well. She's a journalist in an Italy country that works as in France because you also produce lots of wines the promotion in our press will be mainly for French wines. It's not complaint. It's just it's the fact. It's hard to gain articles into French press That's the reason why you will promote your wine. The three main ideas according to me is to give you a positive feedback. Now there is a market in France and you have good chance because your wines are fitting well with what we love drinking. If we want to drink something outside of France, we'll be Italy for sure. Number one. So there is a potential. Your big strength to me is the difference. What makes you unique. Take time to underline this specificity of the wine region. And then the importance to build the relationship with the French. So the wine importer by keeping him informed on what you're doing, And then somewhere in stores also, restaurants. They like the contact, they like knowing in person close relationship, serious professional can have with French producers. The French professionals are very close to the French producer. Us because this is their fuel, their gas, their energy to sell wines. You can build the same relationship, Paola. Thank you, Fani. You mentioned the quality wines. I mean, said that there's a room for quality Italian wines in France, which is the definition of quality wines in your opinion for French market. So quality, since we don't no yet. We cannot put this domain into, a taste. So we are not expecting a taste, but not too much oak, I think. Now French people, they don't want to have something too okay. And then the balance in terms of, the acidity, a body, and and Tannins, and the length, having a good well, the complexity, I think the same. Freshness, like, and length. We, we, freshness, the complexity, the lengths, something that you memorize. They can, they can be, they can be, picky on this. They don't want to have a wine too simple and you forget right away. Of course. I think it's very close quality for French wines and quality for its own wines. And about the price range. When you ask in a store who are buying Italian wines, they will say the young who wants something new or who have traveled or the of people who have money. Wealthy people. From twelve euro up to twenty easily from twelve to twenty. Above twenty euro, well, it's more the wealthy people, while the richer people still you have customers. And then above it's really because they know the domain and you have the brand has built an image strong enough. So you divide per two. The structure will be a store when they buy a wine The price without tax will be doubled. So if a store buy one for six euros without EVA, they will sell it to twelve with EVA. That's how it works in France. You were suggesting to producers, Italian producers to keep in touch with the professional in France, but do you also suggest to visit to go to really know, personally, the importer or the wine shops. As you do for all the other market, because, yeah, I used to try to export. It's we are we live close. So, going, asking for a market visit. I think France remains a country where it's still asked, well, the professional will be happy to see you. I know some markets are, it's such with the people coming and visiting the market in France. They will be very happy to meet the producer and to welcome you to do tastings. So, yes, you will have space and time and welcome for market visit. You also suggested to talk about deteriorating not only the wine because, French people don't know actually Italian territories. What's the best way to do that? So just to tell about the place where the wine grow, the the great grow, or maybe also do something together, like, being a A group of producer. Yes, a network. With a group of producer, but you mean, do you mean, like, before having your wine importer after when you have built? I don't know in which part of the process, but I mean, maybe what's the best way of talking about the territory in France? If we talk about a group to launch a region, it could be made by the consortia, for instance, that could be a work made by the consortia with a focus on wine origin. And I think this would be nice. Then people could taste this specific region with this number of producer and see the differences and understand also the TIPicity. And then when you have your contact, it's focusing on the key element. I think starting from a map starting from the, we love the geology. We love the natural elements to explain the terroir. We always go back to the terroir. That's how we re understand. We take the hand and we handle it. Talk about this because you have the same. And then inside this territory in Taiwan, what's your position? What's your style? And what makes your wine different? So sorry for the really stupid question, but I used to travel a lot promoting our wines. I work for a winery. And what happened to me when I traveled in another country, the people used to try to ask me, so if my wines have any comparison with some French style. You know, the the word is divided in Bordeaux and burgundy. Me. Okay. It has any sense in the storytelling or our wines to make this same comparison in your market. So it is kind of offensive or it's something that opens the mind or or better done to do? This is their reaction because they don't know. So they want to put the distaste into a landscape, then no, so that's the first reflection. So if I were you, you can agree, well, more or less. And then say, yeah, yeah, more or less this, but this is true for the Chinese, but that's different because at the end, you are not making wines from the wrong value. It's not it's different. But you can first agree in the meaning of understanding what they want to say. They want to classify, but because we do this in France. We classify. So we know that it's more the gamay with the fruitiness more than the acidity, low tannins. We know that if you go to Bordeaux, we will be not so high in acidity, but more the tannins. That's how we have learned wine. So they want to classify in the landscapes they manage. And then you can say yes, more or less. And specifically for our wines, what you have also and that you don't have in this French wine is this and this. So you say yes. And at the end, you say no. But first, you have said yes. And you gained maybe a customer. I take the first. Thank you. Hi, Fanny. Thank you for your presentation. I have a question. You mentioned earlier that the French consumers now. The trend is to drink less, but better. And then I saw the next slide. Maybe I didn't see it very well. In terms of Preseco, it's doing very well in France, do consumers there differentiate between Preseco DOC? Versus DOCG, or do they further even going to like Cartisse and other levels? And if they don't, does it worth any effort to promote the different types of prosecco? I think prosecco has been strong because it's a brand. French people, the reaction is different. But as they do for Champagne, it's the brand. So prosecco is never compared to Champagne. It's prosecco. So it works differently and really differently. And then they will see a wide range of price. And today, well, they can find a wine importer saying, okay. Okay. Okay. Now, you know Proseco. If you want a good proseseco, So because we have started from an idea of taste, flavors, aromas, and then we can say, yeah, yeah, but go towards to quality, and you will see the difference. And then we can explain the story So right here under the power of the brand. They have really succeeded in making this. And I don't know if it's would be possible with Consarture to to do the same, to really work globally, to put landscapes in people's mind and taste. Proseco, we have really well identified the taste, the fruitiness, and you have people in France. The love or they hate, but it's very well identified. Okay. So we are perfect on time. So thank you, Fani. Thank you very much, and thank you for coming. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud Apple Podcast spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. 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