Ep. 461 wine2wine Session Recordings | Wine and Allyship

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Italian wine podcast as wine to wine twenty twenty media partner is proud to present a series of sessions chosen to highlight key themes and ideas and recorded during the two day event held on November twenty third and twenty fourth twenty twenty. One to wine twenty twenty represented the first ever fully digital edition of the business to business forum. Visit wine to wine dot net, and make sure to attend future editions of wine to wine business forum. Hello to everyone. It's great to be here with you. I'm very excited to present with Julia Kony today. We'll be discussing the topic of Allyship. There's been a series of fantastic presentations throughout wine to wine this year discussing inclusivity, diversity, advocacy and various social justice issues as well. And so together, Julie and I hope to bring forward this same conversation into the idea of how businesses in wine as well as individuals in wine can be allies for people, not traditionally so far as represented in the wine sphere. It's a great honor to present with my friend Julia Kony. She and I have been working for a few years now on being able to present together. So it's great to finally get the chance to do this with you, Julia. I would, like to just give a brief introduction to each of us for those of you that haven't met either of us before. Julia Coney is a DC and Texas based wine writer, educator, speaker, and consultant. She has won multiple awards for her advocacy work in wine and her presentation skills in wine. And most especially just last month, I think it was. One, the Wine Star social visionary of the year from wine enthusiasts. It's a Incredible honor from wine enthusiasts to be awarded the wine star award. So congratulations again, Julia. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for having me. This is like an honor and a privilege to present with you. Like you said, it's been a couple of years in the making, so it's happening. It's happening. So as for myself, my name is Elaine Brown. I'm based in California and from Alaska, and I, work regularly as a wine writer and speaker as an educator and occasionally also as an illustrator. I'm the American specialist for jancis robinson dot com, contributed to both the World Atlas of wine and the Oxford companion to wine. And, a newly minted regular contributor to club Enologic, the online magazine as well. So I'm but, Julie and I both, have backgrounds in speaking on diversity and inclusion and have been doing a lot of work the last several years to try to bring the conversation even more strongly into wine. So it's a great honor to help give this final session for wine to wine to talk about it in the realm of business. Yes. Because we all know diversity equity inclusion are good for business and is definitely good for the wine business. That's great. You wanna go ahead and get us started, Julia? So I think when we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, we also have to understand the definitions. And usually, that's when the hard part comes into play because there's they all seem so similar, but they're very different. And so as you can see on the slide, there's a definition for diversity. It's the presence of differences based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, and so forth. There's a different definitions for equity. Equity is promoting justice and partiality and fairness within the procedures and processes, and then there's inclusion. Inclusion is always action. So when you think of how are you inclusive, that needs to be an action or state of including or being included within a group or a structure. So understanding these definitions are what makes diversity, equity, inclusion happen, and they all have to work together cohesively. And so with that, we're talking about Ally Ship, the civil rights movement that happened in the US in June due to Joyce Floyd's, untimely murder is because we saw this Ally ship happening. We saw a lot of people wanting to help because the therefore, the the system systemic racism was prevalent, and you could see it happening. But then we also have to know what is an ally So an ally is a person that actively promotes and inspires to advance the culture of inclusion through intentional positive and conscious efforts. So then what is Allyship? This is a process And so Elaine and I when we speak on this, we always say this is a process. So, Ally Ship diversity and equity inclusion are a marathon and not a sprint. So always think of you are never finished being an ally. So once you know that, then therefore, we could actually move forward to know it's not a start and stop procedure. It's a lifelong process. And with that movement happened, we saw a lot of these squares posted with brands individuals, different people from all around the world. And you all we also saw the protests that were that took place after this around the world. So when we speak of allyship, we have to discuss ally as more than just this square. The reason why we have to say that is because the recent elections in the US, we see that a lot of people turn out for the person who's currently president number forty four. That means this black square this summer of allyship didn't do as much based on who was who voted for him again. So we have to realize, like, how do we change this and how do we work together? And one of the reasons why I always like to show this from spending data from catalyst on Allyship is because look at the power of spending based on all these different ethnic groups. Black Asian, Latinx, American ending, and multi racial. We're talking in the trillions of billions of dollars. And if we think about wine, how much of this goes towards wine? How inclusive are we making wine? I was looking, at Poly and Robert, talk about TikTok and how certain generations don't wanna use TikTok, but there's a market for wine in different places. So we have to decide looking at these numbers, how do we use that as part of being an ally, and how do we use that to enhance the spending pile power of people for wine? So that's one of the data points. I want everybody to really if you take a screenshot on your computer or if you're on your phone. So you can see how can we get part of this money because we know the United States is the biggest consumer of wine. So since we are the biggest consumer, how do we actually spend more on wine? So one of the ways Elaine and I work and talk, we show you slides, but we don't always talk and stay on the slides. But we also wanted to give you some tools. So small steps equals big impact. It's a process, understanding systemic inequalities, creating a safe space for diversity discussions, even the difficult discussions and these discussions will be hard, but they are needed. And you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable in order for them to happen. So we always need to listen, learn, and support. And we definitely believe and you can't cancel others and call that doing the work. It's not about canceling someone. It's about doing the work to grow. And so we're gonna use wine as a catalyst to come together. And so with that, here's our information, and we will start our discussion more on allyship and working together. And we wanna thank you. That's just a slide presentation. So we actually will start our discussion on Ally Ship and what it means based on wine and also different sectors and understanding different ethnicities within that and how to actually be a lifelong ally. And how to continue it so we could actually grow the wine business. That's great. Thank you, Julia. I I think, so I've been spending a lot of time thinking about kinda ways to think about this because one of the important points you brought up is that idea of performing allyship. Mhmm. And I think one of a really straightforward way to distinguish performative allyship versus that lifelong commitment like you pointed out is to realize that to genuinely be an ally, whether you are a business or an individual, you have to think of it as if you are constructing a strategy for long term collaboration and change. Yes. So if if you are a business, that strategy has to be part of your business plan. You have to actually look for ways to create business partnerships, and you have some great examples of that. But to look for business partnerships that actually expand the conversation, expand the market and who the market is connecting to for your product. But if you're doing it, if you're thinking in terms of an being an individual, being an ally is a lifestyle. It is a long term commitment. That's the other part of what we mean when we say, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Genuinely being an ally is a full lifetime commitment. That grows over time. And a really simple way to make that point is to say if you can count the number of times you have helped someone or helped someone that has does not look like you, you're actually not being an ally. That means that you can actually tell how many times you've done something out of your comfort zone. That means you're just getting started. Get started. We all have to get started. But if you can still count the number of times you've done something for another person, you aren't doing it as a way of life yet. Keep expanding your practices to connect and amplify people that, are in other groups from you to advocate for other people and to leverage your privilege. One of the most important things you can do as an individual is if you get an invitation to be part of a program of some sort, then you can say, well, I'll be able to do that if you also invite these other people and have have access to a list of people. Julia has put together a really fantastic online resource for, black wine professionals. And in the United States, the BAME website, is another really great resource, and you can actually access genuine professionals in wine who, are part of the BAM or bipod community that you can advocate for. And I would also say in the Ally Ship, when we when we think about it, people always say, oh, you know, is so much work. Well, we realize now that we've all you may or might not like the word pivot. We've all had to pivot since COVID. We've all had to adjust. I mean, this is amazing conference in how now we're doing it online. But now we take the same way we pivot it. And how do we do that in terms of ourselves or in terms of the business? Because if we think of how, you know, younger people people in a certain age group, you know, we are everybody has their own bias. And we understand there is bias in everything. But in order to be an ally, what that means is saying is, okay, I may not totally get what a person is actually going through. Who is a babe? Who is a bipoc person? Let me listen. And, also, when you listen, you listen with empathy and you listen and don't put it back on yourself as saying, well, I also I always say this. Don't say, well, I have a black friend or I have a Latin ex friend because then now you're that's a microaggression. Now you're not being an ally because you're not even listening to the what another person goes through because just because you had a friend that's black, that doesn't mean the black experience is not a monolith. That means everyone's experience is so different. So in order to do that, we have to say, how do I, like, how do I be an ally for all people? It is me understanding, like, when everything came out recently with the court of master solemnly a sexual harassment scandal, sexual assault, issues, how do I be an ally with knowing that didn't happen to me? It was time for me to step back and just listen in support. And that's true. Allyship is not placing yourself in the middle and in the forefront of something. It is actually just sometimes stepping back and listening and also learning from listening. Well, I so agree with that and really wanna emphasize that again. Like, the first step to being an ally is learning to listen. And the what is at the core of this process that we are describing is learning to see the shift from self promotion and personal gain to community building. To to actually asking how can I use my position to actually grow, improve, and strengthen the community so that I'm not promoting myself? I am helping to build stronger connections and expand those connections into parts of the community that have been less advantaged previously than myself. But the way to do that is not to go in assuming you already know the best strategy but instead to listen to people that actually can benefit from our support in order to problem solve with them, how do I how do I solve these issues that are occurring? But, also, it's no magic elixir. Like you said, there's no one stop. There's not okay. We have a new especially if we're talking the US United States because there's different angles in the United States. Regarding race in different countries regarding racism. They're all very different, but they all are very similar. It's one person people of power who are pressing another group that is marginalized. And so when you re we realize, okay, there's marginalized people also in wine education. How do we get more people of color? I know there are a lot of scholarships that are also happening, but also with that, how do we move these people once they're in? How do we actually access and help them get jobs? Because we we have to go from just, okay, they took the class and now they have the knowledge, but how do we put that knowledge plus work plus income into a job for people? Right. Cause it's a lot of the strategies that are coming out right now are about entry level scholarships Mhmm. To entry level education. And that is an important move, but it's not going to actually change the landscape of wine unless we keep opening doors ever forward up the chain, so to speak. So we need to be creating initiatives that offer upper level education as well. What I would love to see is an initiative to support not only diploma level WSTT Education, but also, education provider funding for four people of color for BIPock and BA providers to create their own educational communities. That when we start actually supporting change at the decision making level, not just the entry level. That's when we're actually gonna be changing the the community at large. But, Julie, I think it's important for us to give, like, really specific examples. So, like, The specific example I I just gave is again, I would love to see upper level funding for both WSCT diploma and for, education provider programs for WSET. So just as one example related to WSET, because that is gonna change the education landscape if people can create their own education communities with a formalized program. But you actually have some great examples of how businesses have partnered with you and the work you're doing through black wine professionals. So could you tell us about some of those examples? I think it'll give great ideas to people too. So Black Wine Professionals has partnered with Champaign La Ronde Perrier for the Champagne Master Level certification with Wyne Scholar. But we didn't just give them a scholarship. So you can give anybody a scholarships. What we're doing is mentoring We're also doing master classes that they are also providing the champagnes. And in between those master classings, there are weekly check ins. And, also, we're not just relating Champagne as in the technical We also are relating champagne in the in the mentoring sessions with myself as part of our culture, part of the food components that we as black people in the United States eat. How do we pair that with champagne? How do we look at champagne from a different lens of not just being celebratory, but also food because different cultures eat different things. So we're coming to it also from a perspective of where do you what culture food culture do you come from and how do we relate these wines to your culture And that's very different because now we're going to say we have people from the south, we have people from the north. How are they? Their food culture is very different, and some of them are also from the Caribbean West Indian. That means they have a different full food culture. So they're gonna bring that in. And so we're gonna study champagne with the, a technical lens. Yes. But also a food cultural lens as well. Well, and I love that example too because it's a it is a winery business partnering with the community that you are building. Mhmm. So there's a collaboration effort there. But also you're helping to solve a really key aspect of all of this, which is access. So access to education, access to community, but also literal access to wine. You know, you said they're helping to get the wine to different people, but then the third step is you're expanding the conversation. So instead of just saying, look, you have to learn wine in this preset pre ordered way that's been approved for decades, we're gonna actually bring that conversation into a new context and say, I wanna listen to you. How do you see this work in your community, in your life with your foods? You know, so it's collaboration, gain access, share access, and expand to the conversation. Those are like three key steps that all occur in your example. Also, to connection. I think Connecting people back to their culture. I'm not taking away from a person's upbringing or in. I'm just adding and enhancing. In this way, we're saying, here's this great product that we're actually bringing back to what you have learned. Like, in what you were taught, like, your family, your family's food. And that it brings it home too as well. Yeah. It makes it makes sense. But so it's like a way of inviting people into an established community of wine, but by saying, I want I want to learn with you too. I want to learn what you have to share with me because your community has this unique perspective in food in your example. And by us learning together we can actually expand the conversation and connect and understand each other as people. It's a great, again, it's like listening, use that to connect, see it as a long term strategy of collaboration for change, which expands the market and changes the conversation. Like, those are the five key steps of allyship. Yes. But so one of the questions that's come in, is from people who wanting to us to advise, other educators in wine. You know, so, you know, you and I both have a background of work working on these issues. You know, I am actually Alaska natives, and so we both in different ways have backgrounds of being impacted by these issues. But for people that are newer to these kinds of questions and working in the education sphere, the question is, you know, what advice would we give for how they can be an ally in their community and in their workplace as educators. I would say first, it goes back to we said before the tool is listen in patients and ask the question of each person's background. Every person is individual. You can't assume everything also based on appearances based on socioeconomic status. Ask the question. If you're educating a student and you're teaching wine, ask them what they when they were a child, what did they eat? Everybody has a favorite food no matter what that is. Right? And that way, you could actually teach wine towards that food that they had because remember most wine classes are based on European standards of food. Right? So if you're teaching and you're not in Europe or you are in Europe in the but you're teaching someone of a from a a migrant household, someone from maybe the cameroon, gonna have a different food culture. In that way, I think, because also food brings us together just like wine, and we and we're connected through that personal experience, ask a ask the question, and also just talk to that person about what they would actually like to do in wine. A lot of times when we teach people about wine, we never ask them what do they want to do once we have talked them about wine. Yeah. Absolutely. That well, and that's that that personal aspect of mentorship. So that it's not just about education, you know, entry, offering entry level education. Again, it's really important, but it also assumes we already know what people need to learn. The shift that you're describing is is expanding that interest in in education and improving access to education to include mentorship, which is where the personal connection comes in. So that instead of only assuming let's just offer money for more classes, How do we each as individuals participate in being mentors for each other? And that goes back to listening and making being open to connections. Yes. I I think it also emphasizes the point that you included in in our tool slide which is like we need to remember that we are also educating ourselves. Mhmm. This to say this is a long term process is to admit I have a lot to learn. I've been working on these issues professionally in my previous career and in this one, and I still have a lot to learn. And the best way for me to do that is to learn together, but that means I have to be open to also receiving corrections and realizing that there are gonna be times when I make a misstep or simply just don't know something. You know, like your your example of the community of people you're bringing together around Champagne, there there have to be tons of food experiences that are completely new to you. And learning how to talk about those and listen about those is such a crucial aspect of this. But I think it also all connects to the point we made that I I wanna make sure we talk about just for a minute or two. It's just that idea that cancel culture is not doing the work. It's not doing the work. It's not helping. It's not helping. There are there are times when someone's behavior is so egregious, they do need to be removed from leadership. Like, let's make that clear. Right? Yes. But the point is cancel culture is about closing doors. Ally ship is about building community. That means we all have to be willing to change over time. And that also means we have to be willing to find connections with people that we might not have had them with before or that we were uncomfortable with before, sometimes too. Yes. So what, Rebecca is sharing a question that's come in with us. So do we have, examples of initiatives specifically to do mentorship or allyship with immigrant communities or migrant populations? I personally haven't heard of any. I do know that is a problem, for, like, like, you know, the question in Europe and around the world for migrant. I can say in the US here, a lot of that also had to do with our current Yeah. Administration presidential administration in the US that a lot the migrant issue, I am will think that may change with the new president-elect and vice president-elect coming in, but I don't know. And that's something I will act I would actually need to look into myself and think about as well because, honestly, that part hadn't really crossed my mind. And like you said, Elaine is like, Ally Ship is listening. I'm learning new every day. And I have to learn about what's going on in that aspect as well. So thank you for the question. Yeah. The big the big thing for everyone to understand in relation to that question of migrant communities and immigrant populations is that it it all, like, Julia just intimated, it all comes down to how the local laws around immigration and migration operate. And in the United States, we've been under a really, domineering and strict, really restrictive legal system and and implementation of those laws these last four years. There have been, advocacy programs that have emerged for migrant workers here in the United States and for, undocumented immigrants here in the United States as well. Those are very local and specific because a lot of this stuff, has to be handled delicately here in the United States, but I think that it it it is an effort that people should remember as next steps for all of us working on Allyship to improve these situations because what we know is that any of us working in wine are indebted to the vineyard worker communities around the world that do the work to make the wine possible. And so if we wanna genuinely be allies for for the community, we have to be advocating for vineyard workers. And again, how to do that operates differently depending on laws. But what is always needed is housing security, food security, legal assistance, medical access to medical care, professional development training. These are all, regardless of the law in your local area. Those are all ways we can advocate for vineyard worker communities in different parts of the world. There's also a question coming in about can we talk about the difference between cultural appropriation versus cross cultural collaboration? And I think a really simple answer to first step answer to that is that who's who's benefiting is the first question asked who's benefiting. Are you gaining financially and in reputation through the work being done with other cultures, culture symbols Well, then that's appropriation. Are you helping to build communities through collaborative work? Well, then that's cross cross collaboration. It's a simple, do you wanna add anything to that question? But I also think, like, when we were talking about a quest end of that question was about drinks. And I think when you take something and you don't give credit to whom credit is given, that is cultural appropriation Mhmm. Of that particular cultures dish. Right? So or or drink. And so that's where the the line, but when you say I am collaborating and I'm helping that culture, that product gain following because I'm working and giving the, the information of of my knowledge based on, I know this came from this person, this group. A lot of times, cult cultural appropriation has happened because people don't acknowledge where it came from. And they also wanna pan it off as it's like plagiarism, almost. Yeah. Absolutely. In the same in the same vein. Again, who's benefiting? Like, that's a really simple first step question. Who's benefiting? Yeah. So we're almost at a time, and there's, obviously, hopefully, this has shown that there's lots more to talk about. Yes. But and that there's a lot more sessions, like next step sessions that can continue to be had. But, again, think of allieship as a strategy for of collaboration for community building over time. That it needs to be integrated into your business plan. And as an individual, you need to think of it as a way of life. That means we all have something to learn. We have to be open to being corrected and to and to learning together and to see that as collaboration as well. Julia, other last comments you wanna ask? Last comment is if you, this goes Pauline's question, different races and colors who want it to help take initiatives, also reach out. Right now, there are so many people of different races, colors that wanna help There's there's different groups, Elaine, and, Miriam have, like, created a new thing of we're bringing all the different people in diversity together. There was a recent article about that, in Vinepere talking about that. And we're all really working together. We're doing similar things, but they're very different. And I would say just reach out to the to anyone you wanna work with. Everyone really now is almost you you can find them. You can, you know, email them, DM them and contact them and get the conversation started. The key is getting the conversation started, and it's a continued conversation. Yes. So just it doesn't stop just because we wanted to stop because Allyship and DeI is a lifelong work. Let yourself be uncomfortable. Let yourself be uncomfortable. Thank you so much to everybody for, for including us and for being covered with us today. Thank you, so much. Thank you, everyone, and wine, and Vivian Lee. Thank you. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Himalaya FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.