Ep. 2158 Gus Zhu | Book Club with Richard Hough

So I think the overall quality of the Chinese domestic wines is definitely improving. And, also, we see a more diversity of styles of Chinese wines produced in recent years. Very interesting. So, basically, we're we're talking about a shrinking market overall, but perhaps with some more engaged consumers, more discerning customers. Hello, and welcome to book club with the Italian wine podcast. I'm your host, Richard Hoff, and I'm delighted that you're joining us as we get between the vines with some of the best wine writing out there. So sit back, pour yourself a glass, and enjoy the show with the Italian wine podcast. Hello, and welcome to the club with the Italian wine podcast. This month, our guest is Gus Ju. Gus is the first Chinese master of wine and has over ten years of experience as a wine educator. He completed a master's degree in viticulture and enology at UC Davis in California and is now a research and development scientist with the Harv eighty one Group, a company specializing in closures, barrels, and labels for the wine industry. His book, Behind the Glass, the Chemical and Sensorial Tellur of Wine Tasting, was released in The UK on the 09/16/2024 and on the October 15 in The US. So congratulations, Gus, on the publication of your your book. It looks amazing. How are you? Thank you very much, Richard. I'm good. Thank you. And I feel very happy about finishing a book. Yeah. It's a it's a fantastic achievement and a a fantastic sense of satisfaction when you get that over the line and get that first copy in your hand. Yes. I I feel great. So, I just got the physical copy of the book, from Hermione, the publisher, and it just feels so good in your in my hand. And especially in terms of, I didn't intend to write the book until about five years ago. I was not a wine writer. I can't call myself a wine writer now, but, it just feels so unreal to have something accomplished, in a physical copy in my hand. Fantastic. We'll talk obviously in a lot more detail about about the book in a few moments. But I want to ask you first, how did you get into a is that something that you took up in in China, or was it when you began to to travel the world with your your studies that you became more interested in wine? Yeah. That's a question that people always ask because, wine is essentially not the, essential cultural product in China. But I got lucky that, I attended a wine appreciation class in China in my university. Back then, I was studying undergrad studies in horticulture. And our horticulture professor, one of them, she specialized in genetics of the grapes and figs, and she also opened this wine appreciation class. So I I attended the class and got hooked. That's how I gradually got into the wine industry. Okay. And and what was it about that appreciation class that inspired you? Did you see the signs behind the wine immediately, Or was it just the taste, the culture? What what was it about wine really that that captured your attention? I think it's a combination of everything. And that's still what intrigued me about wine is that, there are just so many aspects that's related to wine. So, you can become so intrigued by the taste itself or you can be intrigued or inspired by the culture behind it. So during that class, the professor sort of covered almost everything. Of course, from a more academic point of view, but she did address some of the history and, we also tasted some of the, some wines in the class. Okay. Interesting. But you described yourself as a as a big drinker. Do you enjoy drinking wine for for pleasure, or is it more of a a professional and I hesitate to use the word scientific again, but I'm just intrigued to know about what where your interest lies. Is it Yeah. So I kind of qualified myself as as what they call the younger generation of drinkers. So I love all kinds of food and beverages. That's, something that I really enjoy in life is that whenever I, saw a new type of drink or when I go to restaurant, or just check those kind of videos and recipes online, I see some new recipes on food or I see, some new cuisines or interesting cuisines, in a menu in a restaurant, I always try them. Not necessarily I always enjoy every single dish or every type of, drinks, but, I just wanna try them. And that gave me satisfaction in terms of filling, up my curiosity. So I love all kinds of wine. Sometimes, I'm saying, oh, this wine is interesting, but at the same time, I wanna take a break so I may drink some tea. And as a as a curiosity person, I also drink all kind of what they call RTD, right, ready to drink products in the world. Uh-huh. I'm not a huge beer drinker, but whenever there's some interesting IPA or other craft, brews that's that are available, I will try them. So I just try everything. Okay. Interesting. That's a good philosophy. I like it. Try everything. It's, a curiosity, I guess, that's inspiring your your love of wine. Okay. So fast forward to 2019, and you completed the master of wine program at the tender age of just 31. And you became, I believe, the first Chinese master of wine. Could you tell us a bit about that process and how it felt to become the first MW in a country with a population of 1,400,000,000? Yes. So it's all about, how lucky I felt I am because, other than got, getting inspired by my professors' wine appreciation class, right after graduation, I were I started to work with Funghee Walker, MW, and Edward Ragg, MW. I worked with both, and I got so inspired by them, and they taught me a lot about the world of wine and the way of thinking. So I got my WCT level four or level four diploma back in 2014, I think, if I remember correctly. And then soon after that, I really wanna learn something academic and technical. I've learned quite a lot of them in China already, but I think it's time to, go abroad and study those academic and technical things, from other perspectives. So very luckily, I got into UC Davis studying masters in viticulture and enology. And during that time, I guess is the second year when I was at UC Davis. They, the Institute of Masters Masters of Wine, they started to do this intro to MW program. And the first ever one they did was at a Robert Mondavi winery. I'm like, just for the experience itself, like, meeting people, meeting the MWs, understanding what the program is about, and, tasting some wonderful wines at Robert Mondavi winery, some older vintages. That's amazing experience. So I attended that, intro to MW program. And somehow I got in the program because there was a an entry exam, during the program. So I did the entry exam. I got into the program, and I studied a lot. I tasted a lot. We had one of the strongest tasting group in Napa, for, preparing the MWE exams. Every Sunday in the morning, we did mock exams, mock exam type of tasting. In the afternoon, we do theme focused tasting. And I just felt really lucky that, I studied and worked in different places, China, The US, and also I taught WCT classes. So from a English perspective, I also, see more about the world of wine. So I I just feel I'm so lucky by having all these opportunities that allowed me to get exposed to the world of wine. Yeah. As well as lucky it's a lot of hard work, I suppose, completing the master of wine program. Is it something you would recommend? And what about the aspects of the program that you were less familiar with? Your background is obviously scientific. So how do you cope with the more, business and marketing side of the program, for example? Yeah. Certainly hard work, but not that hard for me in terms of I'm kinda like a shy person. I don't socialize that much, although some people may disagree. Mhmm. But, when I study and find out, yes, indeed, wine business or marketing, those kind of perspective, those kind of, fields, I was not that familiar with. But you know what? When I study, I talk to anybody despite my, kind of, antisocial attitudes sometimes. But I just talk to anybody. I learn