Ep. 1688 Can Wine Podcasts Be An Effective Sales Channel |wine2wine Business Forum 2023 Series

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to Mastercost US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. So sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Okay. So I'm really excited about this session. I'm Felicity Carter, and, August last year, I've started podcasting with a friend of mine, Erica, DC. We we did the business of drinks podcasting. We've made a lot of mistakes, but it's one of the most fun things I've done. I was it's real to be asked to moderate this panel because we have some absolute superstar podcasters on the panel. So to my right is MJ Tower. He's the host and executive producer and creator of the Black wine guy experience podcast. To my left is Juliano Colangelo, who is with the Italian wine podcast. And to my left is Adam Teeter, who's an absolute star of podcasting. He's the founder and CEO of Mind Care, and has launched one of the most successful wine podcasts in the world. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get them all to introduce themselves and talk about their podcasting. What we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about things like how you get on a podcast, how you pitch, how you get your product on, and, how you evaluate a podcast. And hopefully, by the end of it, I'll have enthused you all, and you'll all go out and start your own podcast. So, MJ, can you talk about your podcast? I would say when it comes to podcasts is follow the anecdotal evidence. Okay? So earlier this year, season five episode one zero five, Food and wine unpacking the universal language with Bernardino Sani, I'm not saying if you come on my podcast, you're gonna have the wine of the year, but maybe I am saying that. So, yeah, so I started my podcast, the Black Wine guy experience, in two thousand and twenty twenty, So we're three years old. I just released episode one thirty five last week with bonus episodes, probably around one hundred and fifty episodes. I came out the gate strong. I mean, I don't want to call myself a superstar, but when I launched my podcast and by launching it, I did crack the top twenty of the Apple podcast charts. So in my first week, I was number seventeen and the entire food category going on, have hit a lot of charts on good pods, and taking it beyond, wine, but also into lifestyle and philosophy. So, my podcast is interview style. So I, sit down with guests, and it's also a long format. The shortest podcast I had was fifty four minutes. That was with Gary Vaynerchuk. That's because Gary Vaynerchuk charges a hundred fifty thousand dollars for an hour. So I'll take an hour of his time. Any day. But typically, it's long form and it's resonating with people. I I think when you talk to Adam and Juliana, there's are more. I think people are gonna, learn more because I'm just trying to bring out the stories on why. People do learn a lot, but I don't come in with a set of questions. I don't really like to get too much into terroir and rootstock and clonal selection. For me, what makes this beverage so wonderful is it brings people together to have conversations. So that's what we do on my podcast. Great. I wanna know how you got into the top twenty or in a compact sense. Can you talk about the Italian wine podcast? Sure. I can definitely talk about the Italian wine podcast, but I also hope I can offer some perspective on this panel around how you evaluate podcasts from a communications agency perspective as well. But the Italian wine podcast, the largest wine podcast, Steve is not in the room, but I'm glad she's not here. She's not gonna quiz me. But I joined in March as a host. There are, multiple hosts, and there is a show published every single day. So it's putting out content every single day. So the way they accomplish that is by having multiple hosts. So I took over the B2B show from Steve Ray back in March, so we retitled it Masterclass US wine market. And the format is really to give insights and valuable information about the US market for listeners who are both from the US and Italy as well as other international markets. So we cover topics like how to work the Florida market, or, you know, later today, there's a session, how to master influencer marketing, you know, that is gonna be a podcast episode as well. So really things that will give people insights and tools that they can action into their marketing sales strategies for the US market. That is what we do. Adam. As a media company, we built a podcast network. So we publish four individual shows. We reach, so about two hundred and fifty thousand or quarter million listeners every month to these podcasts. The four are the Vinepeare podcast, which is the flagship podcast. That's the podcast that I'm one of the cohosts about. That's our sort of talker, if you will. Right? We sit around and we discuss the business of alcohol every single week on a Friday show and a Monday show. The cohosts are myself, the editor in chief, Joanna Sharino, and then we have a a beverage professional that comes in from Seattle and Zachoball. Then we have, a wine education podcast called wine one zero one that publishes every single week, hosted by our tastings director, Keith Beavers, that looks at regions, styles, etcetera. And he he takes twenty minutes to basically help teach you something of outline every single week. They have cocktail college, which is hosted by our managing editor, Tim McCurdy. That's a podcast show about a very famous drink every single week. So Tim sits down with a very woman bartender. They talk about one drink, and then they also get into the bartender's life profession, etcetera. And then the fourth podcast is called tap lines. And that is our beer podcast, looking at really important moments in beer throughout the history of craft beer and hosted by David Fonte, who's a James Beard award winning, beer writer. We've used these podcasts to build off each other. Right? So Some of the people who listen to Vinepearl listen to one or more of the others, some people who listen to y one zero one, only listen to y one zero one. Right? But we've used this as a way to continue to build the audience and sort of grow the network of people that listen to it. Adam, how much does the the the or how much do the podcasts feed into your other media properties? Do you do they stand alone or do you use them as the basis for articles? How does it work? So we we use them in a variety of ways, you know, a lot of the topics for the Vinepeare podcast come out of editorial meetings. So today, you know, the show that published yesterday about ABV wines or anything but Venifer wines was a conversation that started in the editorial meeting that we felt was a was better fit for a conversation than an article about this movement and our take on it. You know, cocktail college is a great example because it's it establishes relationships for us with very well known bartenders and then other articles come out of those conversations. Right? Some of these bartenders wanna writing for us. You know, Tim gets great ideas about cocktails that we should talk about or trends that we're seeing. So it all fits into the world together. You know, wine one zero one obviously sort of goes back to our visual ethos of education. And so is helping to continue to make sure that we are the leader there and making, you know, and teaching people about wine. So, yeah, everything feeds into it into everything else. So I'll I'll stay with you. Let's talk about audience. Who is your audience? How do you know who is yours? Mhmm. And how do you build your audience? So the audience is very greatly by podcast. The Vineperer audience for the flagship is professionals. It is a it's a business podcast. Right? We're talking about trend stock prices. You know, two weeks ago was a very critical conversation about the Dow purchase. So you're in the industry, and we know who it is because we survey the audience. And they also email a lot. Right? So we yeah. So we and so for the minor progress, we have probably the top executives at every major alcohol company to listen to it. For why one zero one, it is it's interesting. We thought we were gonna get consumers, but we also Keith gets a lot of actual professionals who use the show to actually pass their exams. So it it's very regularly that someone from Viator will be out to dinner and Desam on the floor will come up and say, listen to why one zero one. It's the whole reason that I became a summer. It's how I passed my advanced, etcetera, which is awesome. Continental College is mostly enthusiasts and professionals as well. Right? So and again, a lot of that is because they email into us, and then we talk to them, and then we get lots of you know, stats from the platforms we use to to upload the shows. So Juliana, what do you know about your audience? Our audience is primarily business and trade as well. Like Adam said for, one of their podcasts. So we're getting anyone from, you know, winemaker, an export director, marketing manager, but even though it's called the Italian wine podcast, it is largely actually US predominantly audience. So, I think that might be a common misconception, but it is still a global audience. Their second market is Italy, but there are also listeners around the world. So but it is predominantly trade for our audience. Okay. Who's two questions to you. Who's your audience? And how did you get in the top twenty out of the gate? Sure. Who did you pay? Sure. I didn't pay anybody. So my audience, I would say, it's probably sixty, forty, male to female. And I think it skews also sixty, forty, or maybe even higher, seventy, thirty industry. Because I think, what's theirs is truly educate not truly educational, but mine falls in the edutainment. So I have so many people listening to it because, there's winemakers on, or there's, importers. And, you know, I've had people email me. You know, I went to college with that guy and he talked more on your your show than he did in our freshman year college, or, guests will come on. Like, I've never told this story before. So I think, there's a deep industry insight and finding out more about people because we don't most people weren't talking about themselves. They come on, They talk again about like the vintage, you know, the barrel selection, things like that. And and my podcast is giving people an opportunity to, just tell their story and connect with people on a deeper level. The the key to launching a pot is is is you have to launch something. Right? So, when when a plane takes off, the the pilot does not, just go down the road when you puts it full throttle. So the the key to launching a podcast is to have like stack three to five episodes and then release them on the same day because then you get three or five times the amount of downloads. So that's how that happens. That's what a what a great tip. Julian, tell tell us how important podcasts are. Talk about the podcast landscape and where it sits in terms of overall wine communication. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, wine is inherently visual, right, as a product, it's also tactile. So we have to think about podcasts in a different way than other media platforms, but I think there's incredible opportunity with podcasts for reaching the broad consumer. They are more and more people are listening to podcasts, and also research is showing that more and more people are buying things based on recommendations from podcast ads as well. And so I think as a wine industry, we need to look at the opportunities with podcasts for reaching the broad consumer. I think also as a barrier to entry, podcasts have relatively lower cost points when it comes to advertisement as opposed to, let's say, a traditional print ad with a media company like the New York Times. You could run podcast ads, for example, with the New York Times on one of their podcasts for six months for starting from around sixty five hundred dollars. It's gonna get you about two hundred thousand impressions. That's not a lot. It's still a really high CPM, but it's a way to get into a media platform, like the New York Times without running a very expensive print ad or even a digital ad campaign. So, I'd say for for the wine industry, they're, I think, right now underutilized when it comes to reaching mainstream consumers, and I think that's where there's a big opportunity. Obviously, up here, we're talking a lot about b to b, podcasts. That's an opportunity as well, depending on your objectives. So, if you're a new brand trying to reach new audiences or trying to break into a market, a b to b podcast as a as a great opportunity for you. But if you're a well established brand with great distribution, you should be looking at consumer focused podcast as well. And and how do you know which podcast to approach? I mean, analytics can be quite hard with podcasts. So how would if somebody if a producer came to you and and said I wanna be on a podcast, what strategy would you use? How would you evaluate a podcast? I think for starting with what their objective is, are they trying to move a particular product, are they looking to push a travel experience? So let's say they wanna push a winery visitation experience looking at travel podcasts would be the right place to start. Than looking more closely at demographics. Is their target are they winering California, and their target demographic is predominantly West Coast base, then perhaps looking for those podcasts that reach that audience as well. So that's one way to evaluate. I think you also wanna look at just pure numbers in the reach. So how many average downloads per month is that podcast getting? Again, what's the CPM? So what what's the value you're getting for the spend, in terms of the advertisement that you're placement placing? And then I think you're also evaluating the host. You're evaluating, is this a topic that aligns with my brand? Do we share values? Is the host someone that I want representing my brand? Because most often podcast ads are read by the host, not by the brand. So you want someone that can give you third party third party credibility that also identifies with your brand. Those are a few things that we would look at. So can I add some of that? So I to kinda dovetail on what Juliana said, I think, though, before you're looking at the download numbers, you really need to look at the, the cost per acquisition of a customer. Right? So for my podcast, I interview a lot of boutique, winemakers and wineries that do direct to consumer. If someone, if the lifetime value of your customer, let's say, just for instance, you do twice a year. You do six bottle release, hundred bucks a bottle. It's twelve hundred a year. Well, how long do people stay on your list? Right? So if someone stays on your list ten years, then that's twelve thousand dollars. Right? So if it costs you eight thousand dollars to sponsor, eight episodes of a podcast, but over life ten years, so there's So or just even one episode, like taking that and these things run forever. That's the thing they're evergreen. Right? So they they they hang out there a lot like, newspaper ads or grade print ads, but, they go on the coffee table, whereas, every week, someone will find a podcast, and then they'll go back and through the catalog. So, the numbers are important, but also, like you said, I think the host, as a host, I think what works is people people really get to know the host. Like, sometimes it's scary. People, I'm like, you actually don't know me. Stop coming to my Instagram DMs, asking for free advice, but, you know, it is fun, to get that relationship with people and, it is joint. I spent a lot of things in there, but really it the host and the relationship with the brand is so important as a host as well. And I think I'd just, you know, add to that that, you're thinking about the host and what they're recommending. Right? So if you recommend a wine as MJ, in your podcast, you know, it it's credible. You know, I buy fitness products from a running podcast I listen to. If she recommended a wine, I probably not gonna buy it. You're not gonna buy it. Yeah. But if she's recommending a supplement or a pair of shoes I might buy them. So it's also looking at what's the topic of their podcast. Does it align with what you're selling? Yeah. So it it might be time to talk about the relationship with the host. There's a lot of research about what makes podcasts so effective is what's called a parasocial relationship. So when you're listening to a podcast, you've got it in your ears when you're running or or doing whatever. And and you can actually feel an an intimacy with the host. And then you get a lot of feedback from people. What's your experience in this relationship? Oh, they they know everything about me. It's I think also they feel very comfortable. I mean, I yeah. I've gotten so many conference so many emails congratulating me on the birth of my daughter. I mean, it's it's a it's a lot of stuff. And they there's a comfort there. They feel like they can give you very, also frank feedback. Right? We get we get the frankest feedback about the entire media product from the podcast listeners. What's the frankest feedback? Oh, the volume is too low. Dan just shared that with us earlier. You know, so, how do you how do you fix audio, etcetera? I mean, Keith gets DMs all the time about the, you know, topics and regions they want him to cover, and people feel very comfortable doing that. And you know, we really don't get, like, a lot of letters to the editor in the same way for the written products. It's like, oh, I know you. You're my friend. I know what your voice sounds like. You know, people wind up just kind of revealing a lot of other personality through audio. And so you really do feel like you are friends with these people. The odds, even the podcast that I listen to personally, I I feel that way. I don't email in, but I but I do feel that way. And so I think that also allows you as the creator of the podcast to help make shows that are more tailored to the actual listeners because they do share. The feedback is really helpful. So then when we think about, okay. I mean, the Vinepeare podcast for a perfect example, right, when it started, it's much more just like a podcast about, like, wine topics that we were interested in and and spirits topics, etcetera. And we had more guests. And then we realized about three years ago that the audience was one hundred percent industry professionals. Right? And they all they wanted was the business topics. They wanted us to talk about purchases and marketing strategies and things like that because it was helped their jobs better. So we stopped doing, you know, the podcast about, hey, let's talk about Merlo. That completely ended because we were getting that feedback from the listeners, and then we saw the listenership grow. Right? So those are the things that you're able to do because they feel so comfortable emailing you. Well, let's talk about your, your listeners. What sort of relationship do you have with them? Oh, it's, it's, like you said, it's it's a very intimate form of communication. I often joke. I'm like, anyone who takes ninety minutes to two hours the other week to listen to my dumbass talk while I'm drinking wine. I'm very grateful for. And that's what it is. People do get to know you. People, want to they wanna show you. I get DMs or I bought that wine or, like, you know, and they're really excited, because they they get to know, like, and trust you. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what sales is. There's no you buy from people you know, like, and trust. And it and I never thought it, but, yeah, people are on their Peloton or they're running, and you're you're literally in their head, which is kinda scary. But, yeah, my listeners are incredible. I mean, I do. I get you get the feedback. That was a great episode. Did you get the the volume thing sometimes, but, it's always interesting. And for me, I I my podcast about who did I think was cool that I wanna have a bottle of wine with. Right? So that's that was the the premise. I didn't know what it was gonna take off like this. So I was like, well, I I think this person would be cool to drink, wine with to get to know their story. And, that is kinda caught on. It does become an for me, when people, when I get pitched, I don't know if you want more there, but when I get pitched, it's about, I'm like, the guest has to be willing to talk about their life. I'm not going to talk, ask them any questions about what's on a tech sheet. So if they don't wanna come to be prepared to talk about their life, it's not a good fit. I'm like, listen to my podcast. It's just it's very natural. It's very organic. It's a conversation. I'm very improvisational. I have the most scripted part is I rarely show. It's a warm up, and that helps me get report people. I call it twenty question with MJ. But then it's like where'd you grow up and then I'm just start listening and I'm listening for for a hook or for something that I can unpack that I think would, provide value to the listeners. Do you get feedback from your listeners, Julian? Think the Italian White Podcast is unique in the sense that it's a community because there's multiple hosts. So I'm one of five, six hosts at this point. So I get a lot of feedback on LinkedIn, so I feel like I'm getting feedback through a professional network. As well as on social media. And that was another thing I'd add is you wanna look at when you're evaluating a podcast too. What's the reach on social media as well of that podcast host of the podcast, because that's the format too where people can provide feedback. If they don't feel like writing into an email, they can share that so they can comment on the post. But I have received feedback that people are getting valuable information. They like the format. But I just started in March, so not nearly as experienced as these guys, but know, what what do you think about the the relationship that people have with hosts? Do you think this makes podcasts a more effective form of media than others, or do you think that it's just a different form of media? I I think it's just a different form. And I think it can be more effective in terms of, that third party credential when it comes to a paid placement in an ad. I think because people form that relationship with the host and they trust them, But I do think it's it's a different form of media than what someone's seeing online or in print, because it's, again, it's a more personal relationship and also the format in which they're listening, the occasion, in the car at Jim, like MJ was saying is is different as well. Okay. So one one thing that happens when you do a podcast is your LinkedIn immediately fills up with people pitching themselves to be on podcast. I some somebody has written a book somewhere that says if you wanna build your career, be on a podcast, Amazing. Adam, how do people get themselves on your podcast? What what is the way to pitch you? So I think m j is something really important and that's you need to listen first. You need to have listened to the podcast. So For example, for the Vinepeare podcast, you don't get yourself on the podcast. We don't have guests. So, you know, the amount of times we get if you pitch us to be on that podcast, we immediately know you've never listened to it. Right. Whereas, you know, with Continental College, You know, you need to know what cocktail system covered. Who is the bartender? Like, why why is this person so specialized that they can come in and talk about, like, how they become known for the gimlet? Right? Out of all the drinks, if that's what you're pitching, not just, oh, they like to make the gimlet. So they should come on. Like, they need to have become well known in their own space, even if they're, you know, wherever they are for that one cocktail, if that's the cocktail you're pitching, same when we talk about tap lines. And then, yeah, Keith doesn't have guests either. So again, it's thinking about what the podcast is. So for us, like, maybe you pitch me a topic, like, hey, I really love the Vinepeare podcast. Would you guys would be willing to talk about x, y, or z in the business? That's maybe the way that we talk about something that's related to you or your brand or, you know, the area that you operate in, but we wouldn't have you on. Right. And your thoughts? Oh, yeah. For me, it's You gotta be interesting. I mean, like, just to be honest, you have to be interesting. And, you know, Adam said it. Like, I can tell when someone hasn't, a PR person hasn't listened to my podcast, you know, just how the pitch comes in, you know. The what's been nice about, my show is that, like I said, I started I picked all the guests for a long I mean, I mean, the first season I picked all the guests except you know, like one was recommended, that was great. I was, but yeah, someone, but and then it was recommendations. It was like, oh my god, this was really great. I'm, you know, this was a of the most fun I've had on a podcast. You should interview x And just like we're talking about that trust and knowing people. So if I had a good time with a guest and they recommended someone, it was more likely for me to, wanna sit down with them. I had one of my favorite guests did come from a listener though, because it's the listening. Right? They're like, you might not have heard this guy. He's he's kind of a badass. He's really cool as name is Michael Jurgens. He's an MW candidate. And he's also a partner with Deloitte. Right? So I was like, I have to interview this guy because who the is a partner with Deloitte and is becoming an M. Why? Why? You know? And and then and written four books online and still a partner at Deloitte and got tattoo sleeves. It was it was incredible. And that was a listener, but the listener knew because of my style and the people I liked to interview. Like, he was not on my radar. You know, I mean, there's so many people here who are incredible pursuing massive wine, but they're not necessarily on my radar because of how I came in the business. Italian wine podcast, part of the momo jumbo shrimp family. To get on my show, you have to listen to it. You have to and you have to be willing to to, talk about your life because, that's what I do. I I I'm not gonna get a chance. I mean, never getting the chance to sit down with, this person. Right? So I wanna find out, and I want to unpack their life. Kind of one of my inspirations was, Tim Ferris. Right? So Tim Ferris kinda is a has one of the most successful podcasts ever. If not the most successful podcast ever, and what he does, he deconstruct successful people's lives. So he'll have everybody on, but they're talking about their life so you get to see how they got there. And I think it's really important in mind because There's so many intelligent people from incredible backgrounds who I fell into this. And, it just that provides a connection for people. And just last thing I'll say, like, I have a friend who does not drink at all. Not he just doesn't drink. He listens to the podcast for the stories. And I remember, I had on a woman Sharon Daster, who was the first ever, female, program director for a major radio station. She ran z one hundred in New York at his hay day. And she's just a wine lover. I and I pitched her. She was on Debit, but I saw her. She was at E and P, and she's drinking all these incredible wines, and she was excited to come on. And my my friend said he said, I love that podcast with that one. He's like, he's like, you know, she she was in the band in high school. I was in the band in high school. She was a music director. I was a DJ. She majored in marketing. I majored in marketing. He doesn't even drink. He's listening for the stories, and that's, why the people have to be interesting and talk about their Right? So So, Julian, I've got a two part question for you. First of all, how do you find your guests? And secondly, how do you what is the benefit to people of being on a podcast from a communications point of view? When would you recommend somebody pitch a podcast? Mhmm. So the first part of the question, I'm picking most of the guests. I'm and to be honest, I'm picking people that mostly I know. I also get recommended guests as well, but the reason I'm currently picking people I know is, again, in the in the ninth month. So I I still have that opportunity to to interview all my friends and colleagues, but it's because I know there are stories in their backgrounds and the conversation. I think it's a lot more natural when you know your guests. And I think you can dive into other topics. There's just a familiarity in a comfort level yesterday, I interviewed two colleagues that are presenting later today, Amanda and Kristen, and the conversation flowed so well because we know each other very well. And I think those conversations result in more dynamic interviews. So for now, I'm picking people that I think have interesting backgrounds have something unique to offer when it comes to to the US market and to the topic I'm discussing. But I'm also open, you know, to recommendations, and I've I've been receiving some of some inquiries as well. And then to the second part of your question, when to pitch I think going back to what both Adam and MJ said, listen to the podcast first that you wanna pitch and understand what they talk about, make sure your pitch is tailored. You can't take a, you know, when we, when we pitch wine, we often pitching tasting the wine or meeting the winemaker, those same types of of pitches don't work for podcasts. You have to be topically minded. So what is a topic and a theme that this person can speak about that's interesting, unique, but also relevant to the audience that you're pitching into the host that you're pitching. So if you want to be on a more mainstream general news style podcast, what can your, client or what can you talk about? Can you talk about climate change? Can you talk about sustainability. Can you talk about the economy? Can you talk about things that are going on in the world that, you know, you have a perspective on and that you have a credit credible stance to to have a position on. So I'd say, it's knowing it's knowing your ass sets in terms of what you're pitching. And if you don't have that right person or you don't have that story, consider placing an ad instead and and and working with podcasts in that direction. If you don't feel like you have the what it takes to to earn what we call earned media, for for our podcast. But, yeah, that's that's what I would add there. So, let's talk about money, which is I think why everybody turned up to this this thing. So, there are different ways of, using podcasts. It's for advertising. So Adam, how do people touch your audience? What what avenues have they got? Do you do? Do you accept product placement? Do you accept advertising? What's your what's your route to financial success people with us? So we do both, ad reads as well as sponsored episodes. So for two of our podcasts for cocktail college and for one one zero one, those are fully bought out by one company. So Gallow owns the podcast of y one zero one for the last four years. They're the only advertiser. They run all their wines at the beginning and the end of the podcasts. And Diageo is the advertiser on Continental College. So all of their different spirits. Right? Their ad reads, we our partnerships team works with their brands to write the ad reads. So they come off as more authentic, but that's how those podcasts work. We don't do sponsored podcast episodes with those brands, but they wanna be surrounded by they they wanna surround those two at those products because they know who the listenership is. For the, Vineker podcast, we will do sponsored episodes. So, you know, we'll talk about a specific topic. And that is the one place where we would have a guest who would come on and talk for thirty minutes about this thing. So when we worked with, LVMH to help them launch La Grande. The winemaker came on and we had a thirty minute podcast about La Grande. And what made the Champagne different, unique, etcetera. And they saw that as an important aspect of the larger partnership that they ran with us. So it's very rare with anyone that we run a podcast episode as the only thing they do with us. It's usually part of a much larger program, as in a way that they're trying to reach our audience. And what about you financially? AdReets. Yeah. And and they're in packages and, you know, a pre roll and and then a mid role ad read. And same, I can write the copy because I write copy, but, I will often will have their creative put together, and then I m j f I it because it has it comes through my tone, and then I send it back to them, and I've never had an ad that they didn't love. So, just because, you know, it's just weird talking about yourself. Apparently, I have a good voice. I don't know. It doesn't sound and my head doesn't sound the way it sounds to you guys. Like, the first time I heard in my pocket is like, that's me talking. So yeah, Ad Reads. And then I also if someone wanted to do a branded podcast, I did do a, a two podcast, with a DTC company and they were branded specifically for them. So I also offer that. If people find that they like my commerce, my interview style and want to do that. I'm available to do that. So those are the two methods. Right. There's a there's a big debate in media about long form versus short form. Now your long form your short form. Give me the rundown of my short form is is better? The Johnny Wine podcast is putting out a show every single day. So I think for the sheer frequency of the podcast, the short form works better because people are tuning in feasibly every day. So for the short form for us as well, I think for my show, in particular, it works well, because I'm looking to give just three clear takeaways from the episode. So I want the information to be really digestible. So I'm not trying to tackle a huge topic or an entire biography, but rather a very singular topic. And I think that's why the short form works well. It's digestible for the listener. Adam, your view? We I mean, we run the gamut, the I think the discussion podcast, they're allowed to go a little bit longer. The education podcast. We try to keep around twenty, twenty five minutes. The, you know, the piece of advice that we got ten years ago. We started creating this from other media professionals was you kind of wanna think about your length as the length of someone's commute. Right? Because if they get to their destination and they have five minutes left of the podcast, they may not come back to it on their way home. Right? They go to something else. So you wanna think about how do we and the average commute for the an American is thirty minutes. Right? So that's kind of what we think about. But then they focus on a list of two that are like, you know, hour hour and fifteen that are business podcasts that I really enjoy, and I will I will go to those, but then you really have to have a very loyal audience. Your thoughts? Well, I'm long form. So, And, and, again, when I started to do the podcast, it was, I modeled it after Tim Ferris, he's a long form in Joe rogan. I mean, Joe rogan sold his podcast. Joe rogan has four hour podcasts. I don't know who listened to those shits, but, And, you know, Spotify bought them for two hundred million. I mean, so there's it is just what your objective is, you know, as I'm growing this and learning more, going back to what I major in college about media that might chip. But I really I know I think this would be this would be a flagship podcast for me because it, the people who have asked to come on have have really blown me away. And, so I just think it it it's two things. Right? The commute makes sense. But like I said, when people invest that time in you, then it it goes a long way when you're asking them to, you know, when you when you come to your call of action, if they're wanting to listen to you for that long, you can take them to a direction, that can redeel the good ROI for your appetizer. Okay. Mistakes. What mistakes have you made that you wouldn't do again, Adam? Well, I mean, the first mistakes we made were we didn't initially invest in quality audio. Yeah. So, like, you, you know, you lose the, you know, we were like, oh, yeah. We're gonna buy a mic off of Amazon and we're going to this office that happens to be like, all glass. And it's gonna rough. And, like, it just you lose, you know, so when, Dan gave me that feedback this morning. You take audio feedback very seriously because you will lose people immediately if the audio quality isn't high and they have to either turn you up too loud or they, you know, they have trouble hearing or there's feedback. So we think about that a lot. So we invested in a studio. But that was a big mistake early on. I think as well from the beginning, we kind of allowed ourselves to be all over the place. And then realized, as I said, about three or four years ago, that focusing very, very tightly on a theme for each of these podcasts is actually how we are able to continue to build a loyal audience. And then for every podcast except for the Vinepeare one, we are a big believers in evergreen content. So what we see happen with Wyme one zero one or cocktail college is that someone might first discover, you know, the most recent podcast, but then they go back and go deep. And they'll listen to ten more episodes, fifteen more episodes, and then we hook them as a listener, whereas just the nature of the Vinepeare podcast, I mean, there's so much that's already changed about the Dow purchase in the last two weeks that, like, what we said when it first happened isn't as relevant as it is now. Even the stock price that I'm talking about isn't the same stock price. Right? So that podcast, we really that that's the read the listenership that we need to be current, but I I'm a huge fan of evergreen content. What about you, Juliana? What would you do differently? I'm gonna answer this question from the communications agency standpoint. Instead, I think I'll have more relevant information there. But I think from a earned media perspective, make sure your media trains and you've practiced, learn how to answer questions concisely, clearly, speak slowly, speak clearly if you are pitching yourself, you know, know those things and understand what you wanna get out of the interview to, what are the main points that you wanna tell? So basic media training principles, and when we've had people go on podcasts that aren't media trained, it's it's not as effective or as successful. And then with advertising tracking, you know, incorporate an offer or something that you can track with a link or a discount code, whether you're advertising an event, a visitation, or, you know, it's harder obviously with imported wine, but a particular wine product. So that you can actually measure the ROI and the effectiveness of that ad that you ran. I also think, with ads, think about repetition, Adam mentioned like longer term partnerships or multifaceted partnerships with advertisers, and I think that's really important. I mean, one ad on one podcast episode once, probably not gonna give you a a really strong ROI. I think more successful at series and or sponsoring an entire series or multiple episodes. Disasters. Mistakes. Things you wouldn't do again. Episode two, we drank three bottles of wine. But now that I learned a lot that time. And I was like, no, we're not doing that again. That's like maybe the only episode we had to edit because it just It went off the rails. So, yeah. And and that's the thing we, like, we, like, we, we, I drink on my podcast. So it's like we, you know, and but yeah, that was learned that one quickly that too. You gotta pace yourself. Okay. What I'm gonna do is throw it to the audience now. Do you have any questions you'd like our amazing panel to answer? Questions. Stevie? Yes. So I just wanted to say something about the Evergreen status. Okay. Because how many episodes have you got, Adam? I don't know. Globally total. How many episodes do we have, Josh, do you know? Josh, more than five hundred. Are you sure? Because the evergreen aspect, I discovered that first of all, Italian Mind podcast, Julia has one series, right, the u US market series. We're up to, sixteen hundred, I believe. Okay? Cause we're very prolific. We don't care about the quality. Right? Only quantity. Okay. Having said that the Evergreen part I've discovered, which I wanted to share with you, is that Most of the platforms will carry five hundred episodes. Beyond that, they do not stay evergreen unless you put it manually to a third party aggregator. So this is actually we're doing that right now because we discovered all of a sudden that the podcasts are not available in all of the different platforms because we are available through two hundred channels. Right? But once you get to five hundred, Josh Let's five hundred cross four. Okay. So you have, like, four. Yeah. So you have some time. So I've discovered that. So the evergreen part of it, actually, it's interesting. So it's not evergreen. I've got a question for you, Steve, but you're a prolific producer of podcasters. What for you is the benefit of podcasting versus other media? We don't have time for that right now. Just a short snap. Just, I mean, you know, I'm very vertical with Italian wine. Right? So it's part of a community. Right? It's not just the podcast. Right. Right. Wine to wine. Like Juliana actually podcast is wine to wine every week. She has the learning objectives and then the takeaways. Half an hour. It's a wine to wine format. We have the ambassadors corner, which are Italian wine ambassadors at large, right, at rotation, they do clubhouse, unpopular, social media at the moment, but incredible quality in terms of audio recording. So we kept that in that sixty minutes. So it's long form for my standards. And I was like, who the hell's gonna listen to sixty minutes of, like, very geeky stuff, very loyal listeners. You know, we have a series every single day. Right? So it's very different audience. And what I'm trying to do is it's part of a you know, portfolio. Strategategically, it's very different, I think, from, like, what MJ is doing. Maybe more similar to Adam. I I'm just more fun. So, it's part of Italian wine. So it's all about Italian wine, and I will do anything to promote Italian wine as you guys know. So it is just part of a bigger picture, not just the podcast. Do we have any more questions? Yes, Aza. How is the Italian wine world reacting to the podcast? Have they understood the potential of podcast or not? Where are we? In Italian, there's a saying, Okay. Which means no one's a profit in its own line. Right? Because also we podcast in English till today, even the during wine, two wine, producers have come to me and said, I've heard about Italian wine podcast. Where do I find it? Okay. And I'm like, you have a phone. It's on your phone. Okay. So I feel like the Italians are behind, but during the pandemic that really accelerated everything, And now many, many people are doing podcast. We are less popular in Italy. All our audience is mostly anglophiles, mostly Americans because we broadcast in English because my purpose is to promote Italian wine abroad. That makes sense. However, we have one series. It's called everybody needs a bit of Shenza. You know who Shenza is. Right? I tell you shenza. You know, the professor who looks like he's one hundred years old. Okay. He does not speak one word of English. Okay. So I had to do this podcasting in Italian, and that actually helped us to bring in the Italian wine world. But definitely Italian wine world is a little bit behind on podcasts. Everybody wants, of course, they all want to be the diva. They all want to be interviewed. Right? They all want to be guests without even knowing what the program is about. Yeah. We'd agree from both sides. You know, our clients want to be on podcasts and and we get requests as well. So I have to say as a as a traditional journalist, you know, still working in in print. It's it's getting increasingly hard to get people to, to agree to interviews for for normal media, but podcasting, it's like a stampede. It's amazing. Okay. So, anymore, if you've got one thing, we need to close it up. Alright. I just wanna say one last thing that dovetail, if you're thinking about starting a podcast. Like Adam said, audio equipment, like I came out the gate, put way too much of my own money into it, but I would record in a studio with a producer, get a good microphone. And then also the number one thing for is the consistency. You have to commit your schedule. Even if you're gonna do one a month, you you know, everybody needs to know when that podcast is coming out, because you are becoming part of life, but you can go away real quickly. So be consistent and it helped you build your community. That's what like Steve said, the podcast