Ep. 625 Andrea Di Fabio | Biodynamic & Organic

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Before the show, here's the shout out to our new sponsor Fairline. Federal wine has been the largest wine shop in Italy since nineteen twenty. They have generously supplied us with our new t shirt. Would you like one? Just two fifty euros, and it's all yours. Plus, we'll throw in our new book jumbo shrimp kite international grape varieties in Italy. For more info, go to Italian wine podcast dot com, and click donate, or check out Italian wine podcast on Instagram. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me Monty Walden. My guest today is Andrea Difabio. From Cantina Tolo in the Agruzzo region of Italy. Welcome, Andrea. How long have you been with, Cantina Tolo? How did you start working there? I'm Monte. Thanks, everyone for being here. And, I'm really happy be with you to share this moment with you. I'm in Continental since two thousand four. So more or less seventeen years. And what is your role? I'm general manager in company. Okay. So You're you're one of the best known cooperatives, if not the best known cooperative in, in Italy. Why has Kentina Tolo been so successful over the years? And when was it found in my it's a you are really nice with us. We think to be one of the best one, the best cooperatives. We don't know if we are the best one, but we try to do it, and we we work to do to to achieve this award. Our secret is trying to follow, always the a good balance between the quality of the life, the quality of the job. And the quality of the the grapes. You know, it's not easy since we have a very, special mission, in in the com our company as, to manage economic sustainability, economic, environmental sustainability, and also social sustainability. So we try to work with people and try to do our best regarding all the activities starting from the grape, to the bottle. So in terms of, visiculture, what are you doing, in the vineyard? Do you have any organic vineyards? Yes. We have a part of our vineyards that are organic, more or less the ten percent, of the total amount of the actors. We we manage more or less, two thousand and seven hundred actors. That's to say our organic part is between two fifty and three hundred hectares. So that's that's quite a good percentage, isn't it? Ten percent. Why is who decides about going organic? Is is it the growers themselves? Do they get any help from the cooperative as an institution? How does that work? It was, our growers, aim. They started by themselves, thirty years ago. And I have to say they were really smart since actually they gave us the chance to to manage, a part of the market that is really growing. And actually, our production is, as I told you, ten percent of the total amount of the production, and it's similar amount of the turnover. So they were really pioneers, but they were, they had a very good intuition. So what about markets? How is the Italian market right now given the fact that we're still, in Italy, to be near the end of, COVID. And what about international markets? Yeah. The situation is, as as a say it's developing right now. You know, we can say we are out of the pandemic. There was a very difficult situation in the past fifteen, sixteen months. It's really, focus the, or eka channel because the problem were for restaurants, cafe, wine bars, and so on. Their wine shops ops, of course. Actually, Italy is, restarting. I have to say that in the last week, we saw a passion in, in orders coming from the Oreka market. But I have to say we are very lucky since we manage the starting from the, a nineties late late nineties, also the supermarket channel. In the in the the export market, we are, working more or less sixty countries. And, we had some problems, of course, for the export since we work mostly in the orica channel, in the on trade channel, more or less ninety percent of our export market are on on trade. So actually, we are seeing some re some countries are recovering the gap, but the it's a slowly it's a slow start. Sure. But at least you're seeing, like, light at the end of the tunnel? Yeah. Which I hope we can say it's the we see the end of the tunnel. I don't I'm not sure since if you I know. You know, it's sometimes it are it's, there are rumors. Sometimes they are fake news, but some countries, especially serious countries, like Germany's, are speaking about, the fourth wave, that is really, nearer, and, because of, obviously, of the, different kind of, COVID. They are now Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The delta, for example, that is coming. They see from they say from India or Pakistan only or it's a mix. So I think we have to be a little bit careful when we we say that, we see the end of the tunnel. I hope it's, this is the this is real, but cross finger. What about what about the demographics of your, your great go is all the social. Is the average age sort of around fifty or is it older than that, or is it younger? No. Fifty percent of our growers, they are over fifty years old. And it's not the first job. But you know, the the the our, vineyards are really small in a brussels. So we have, as I told you before, more or less two hundred seven, two thousand seven hundred actors among seven hundred farmers. That's to say, there's an average, of actor for pharma that is a three, four actor. And especially for the ones that are over fifty years old, the average is going down. So they are we have one actor one actor around. So it's, like, a family job. But it's, and it's the second, the third job and it's the the reason why they they gave us a very good product because they are really addicted. They love, they are completely in love with their, vineyards. What about the, the the terroir of the the area. I mean, a brusso, it seems like a simple thing to to understand as a region, you know, but it's quite a complex terroir where you are. Is that correct? Yeah. It's it's various terrace since we are in the hill, five kilometers from the sea and twenty five from the mountain. Sometimes we have car carriers terrace. In some other location, we have sandra. It's it's different. It's various. It's very various in, two, three kilometers where. So I can't give you an exact definition of the the terroir. It's very complex, very various. And what about some of the grape variety that you work with? Oh, we work with the, obviously, Octocclus grapes that's, coca chola, but we work also with the international, grapes such as chardonnay, Merro, carbonate, sovignon, since we have a very wide range of products, a way, an important portfolio of com of countries. And, you know, it's really important for us to have also some weapons such as chardonnay or Merlo or Cabones of New York sometimes. How easy is it styling mines, from a cooperative perspective for the international market? So you're selling to, I don't know, suddenly you you've got your selling wine to the UK, the USA and Canada. For similar wines. What kind of adjustments do they those markets tend to ask you for in terms of acidity or sweetness or oak? How fussy are they? I I understand. I'm sorry. We try to manage, how to say customer's taste is really important important for us. But we want to maintain our authenticity. So, usually, the you will find the wines from Cantanatolo that are sometimes different from wines, coming from the the same region. Since we try, as I told you at the beginning, we we try to respect the grape. We try to maintain the original characteristics of the grapes. Obviously, we are in line with the the trends. So we try to maintain the alcohol at low level. The residual for us actually is not a key point, since, we think that we can manage the complexity, the balance, in a in a whiner, and also the roundness in different ways such as using both, such as using cement and so on. So you're saying so less less Okey wine, for example. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a always it's a a trend. And ten, fifteen years ago, there was a a big increase of Okey wines, especially aged in, in different kind of woods, like, for example, American toasted wood. Actually, we see, try this, use sometimes wood, big barrels, to know, but also big barrels. And I have to say that regarding multiple channel, it's, you know, in in the past, you had only some only one way to try to keep low, the acidity, the turn in, and it was aging the wine in the barrel. Actually, there are different philosophers office, we are working on, concrete, aging, in order to to manage the, the strengths of the grape. And then I have to say that Vudd actually is not so important. What what about the local cuisine, the with the wines that you make? And what would you recommend somebody that's never tried a wine from your region before? All the food and want some suggestions for a family dinner. What would you recommend? Oh, I think that, we have, obviously, our rights, big stronger turn ins. So it it's not easy to make pairings with all foods. Regarding the white, they are I have to say that, for example, Pasadena Pequarino, that are white grapes that are growing a lot in the in the lion past three for years. They're very good for pairings, with a appetizer or with a fresh foods Treviano is a really complex one. And it it depends on the aging. It could be for a fresh pairing, but it could be also for, more structured meats, for example, or important dishes with pasta and so on. So it's the I have to say that we have, very flexible grapes, and, it depends on the the the way you manage the the aging and the products for the pairing, for the related pairings. When you're doing bottling for chain chains of stores in, say, Germany, France, and the US, How different is their approach to what they want for their customers in terms of wine style? It's not this. It's I think that, both countries actually, they do not have the same taste profile, but They have the same idea. I think they are growing a lot in the in the, knowledge of the wines since they know, that they know the authentic taste of the grape. So what is important for, the customers actually is try to find out with the exception of the packaging that is really important for, actually, for sales. But I think that regarding the taste of the wine, All the customers want to have, an authentic and original wine. They do not they don't want to have, sugar. They too much sugar, with some exception, maybe China, maybe some other countries, but the the taste is, developing a lot. Five years ago, I want to give you an example. Five years ago, the Russian market was focused totally on sugar wines. Actually, they are searching wines that are not too much added with sugar. The evolution, I think, it's going toward the wine really simple, really drinkable, I think, And I I'm not sure that, actually, the trend that is also a requirement that is coming from EU regarding the low alcohol, will be successful in wine. I think that, it's a it's yes. We have to find out to compromise regarding the quality of the the choice and the the level, the amount of the alcohol, the alcohol inside. So but I think that regarding our region, we have different chances since you can find also different, kind of location for the vineyards. We go from the mountain where we have, for example, Vineyard at nine hundred meters of altitude going to the the hills, at two hundred meter of altitude. And this is really important it's a you could you could manage you could work with the the same grape, but with different, kind of results with different kind of, organoleptic feedbacks. Okay. What are the future plans for the cooperative? Have you got any new, innovations? Yes. We are working with the idea to become a a group. Actually, we have four companies in our group. Free, of them are focused on, Abruzzo wines. One is working, on multi regional offer organic wines. But we want to expand our group to the other regions in Italy in order to have an approach that is, to say, an Italian wines, not only Abruzzo wines. This is really important for us since it's a key a success key in the, in the market, you know, when you're a buyer, especially regarding, smaller, once, you don't have time to to speak with so much a supplier. You don't have a big, warehouse. You need sometimes, to manage your liquidity. So we try to manage the idea of a group. Working with different company with different regions since we could offer inside one palette of wines, seven, six, regions and seven, six different kind of, grapes. Not only coming from Abruzzo. Thanks to my guest today andre de Fabio from in the Abruzzo region of Italy. Thanks for telling us about the co op and some of your, historic achievements and some of your future plans. Take it easy. Thanks, Montee. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Andre. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts or on SoundCloud, Apple podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian Wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.